Sharing some special moments from a 2013 interview I did when founder Eileen Crane led the Carneros sparkling wine house to organic farming and certification.
See this post with PHOTOs here.
In 2011 when I was first getting into wine, and focusing producers who farmed organically, I was very impressed to find Domaine Carneros as the sole French founded sparkling wine producer with organic grapes.
I was inspired to start a blog and launch apps - Organically Napa was one (no longer available) – and it was around then that I visited Eileen Crane and tasted with her. What a treat! I am glad I still have a recording and transcript of our interview which I dug out of my archives to share with you to honor her recent passing at the age of 77.
As so many have said, Eileen was most gracious and welcoming. I will never forget her interview with me and her kindness in seating me next to her and her husband at one of the winery’s famous lobster dinners.
Now, years later, I appreciate her for her rarely mentioned organic legacy as well as her many other accomplishments and her warmth and patience.
Today only Gloria Ferrer (the other winery she originally founded and ran) is now farming organically (certified) and has recently certified 300 acres in Sonoma.
Interview highlights:
• When Domaine Carneros opened in 1990, its historic French chateau look was criticized by some locals.
• At the grand opening, the plan had been to dress in historic French costumes, but no one could fit into the rented gowns as they were too small.
• In the year 2000 as the world marked the millennium, founder and owner Claude Taittinger celebrated at his famous Parisian hotel by serving his 500 guests Domaine Carneros’ Le Reve, which he chose because he said the most significant thing in 1000 years was the discovery on “making wine in the New World.”
• The journey to organic was a passion of Crane’s. (Sadly a retreat followed due to mildew pressure). Crane said it cost only 4 percent more to farm organically.
The Interview
PHOTO Chief Bubblehead
Crane | We started trying to go organic in 91, 92, but it was really hard back then. You were kind of on your own. Nobody else was doing it. And there’s something about getting a group of people who can share information and who are more knowledgeable, in that you don’t have to do all the research yourself.
We had some successes and some failures.
We went for organic certification in 2004. Got it in 2007. The winery was certified just before harvest in 2009. So now we have more bottles that say organic on the organic label.
But sparkling wine is such a long process. We have one wine that between harvest and its release takes seven years.
[Around 2013, the winery ended its organic certification and became sustainable certified].
So this culture of being interested in being organic – where did that come from? Did it come from France? Did it come from the corporate ownership? Where does it come from?
Well I’ve always been interested in it – sort of innate. To me. I don’t know why. Like the solar panels I learned about in graduate school and that just sort of made so much sense to me. I love beauty and nature so I have a real bent towards, just wanting to be and participate in beautiful things, I come to work here every day – five days a week for the last 26 years, and people stop and look around so it was a nice area, but it wasn’t gorgeous like this. So to me beauty is just a value and you only keep things beautiful by preserving them, taking care of them.
Maybe that’s probably a funny thing to have organic and solar panels as a love of beauty but it’s a concern for the earth and keeping it this magical place that it is.
I am also interested in sparkling wine buyers...cause I don’t really know much about them as a subset of wine buyers. What can you tell me about the people who buy bubbles?
The bubbleheads?
I’m the chief bubblehead. I should put that on my card. When I met the guy who runs Semifreddi’s – the bakery – and his card said Chief Bootlicker, I thought I could have mine say Chief Bubblehead.
As soon as people get into the category, they learn the most important thing is balance. That is a wine that when you smell it, what it tastes like, what the finish is like – all works in concert – and nothing’s overwhelming.
So we do know that a lot more women drink sparkling wine in this country than men.
That tends to be…but that’s not always the case. There are certainly many men who love sparkling wine.
I think it’s also people who have traveled more. Like when you go to Europe, if you eat in a white tablecloth restaurant in France, and not even in a fancy restaurant. A lot of regions will have their sparkling cocktail.
For instance, in Normandy it will be a sparkling wine with a little bit of maybe Calvados in it, and some apple or something. The kir royal is a little bit of cassis and sparkling wine.
Go to England and you’ll see people in pubs ordering bottles of Champagne. In pubs. And so they’re eating pub food but that doesn’t prevent them from enjoying a bottle of bubbles.
So I think that with this European experience, in the United States, we’re surprisingly backwards about sparkling wine and its use.
I do see that our biggest market is by far in California and the West Coast. There are many good restaurants that will serve a good sparkling wine.
We’ve had so much of that “wedding wine” in this country. The caterers say you want to buy the cheapest because nobody will drink it. Now there’s a self fulfilling prophecy. You buy the cheapest of any wine and people are not going to be very happy about drinking it.
Also sparkling wine often gets served with the wedding cake. And that’s not good…that comes from a historic trend – champagnes and sparkling wines used to be very sweet.
So talk to me a little bit about what it’s like to be owned by a French company.
The family – the Taittinger family – it’s a family owned winery – they’re Champagne based…and traded on the Bourse, the exchange in France, but it’s been family controlled forever. It’s one of the last Champagne houses of any size that’s still family controlled. And they grow far more of their own grapes, like we do.
We didn’t actually talk about our certification. We have 300 acres of grapes and 100 percent of them are CCOF. Cause a lot of wineries will show you the 10 acres out of their 200…
Or they say they’re organic and yet they have only four acres that are organic.
What did you do before wine?
My graduate work at UConn was in nutrition and biochemistry. I lived in New Haven, Connecticut which is where the Culinary Institute of America was located. I’d always been interested in wine, because my dad had a wine cellar in the 1950s. And in my early 20s, I was very interested in winemaking.
When I found out you could study winemaking in California, I moved out here, gave up my tenured track at UConn and took classes for several months and started working at Domaine Chandon. I was there six years in the laboratory mostly, and then became the assistant winemaker eventually, and then I was hired at Gloria Ferrer.
I was there three years and then the Taittingers hired me to do the construction and build this winery.
We started Domaine Carneros in 1987.
So how is it working for French companies. Have they settled if there’s an American or Californian sparkling wine style?
There isn’t just one American sparkling wine style and there’s not one French sparkling wine style either – they’re all over the place.
THE ART OF CHAMPAGNE
I went through eight interviews before they hired me. They tasted their wine, tasted my wine.
I was hired by Claude Taittinger (1927-2022), who was an art collector – he’s now retired [in 2013] , but he was an art collector.
Taittinger has a very decided style and so do I. So it was pretty much a marriage of style.
Claude Taittinger said to me, “Great things are always originals, they’re never imitations.” The analogy he used was Picasso would have been unknown if he had been trying to imitate Renoir. So now as Domaine Carneros, you must be an original style.
Most of the other French houses had sent over a winemaker for a week to do the blends. Taittinger has never done that. We’ve always made them here. So it’s very much – we are our own shape, form, evolution.
Art is a good analogy because people say, ‘Well, do you still produce the same wine you did?”
I say Picasso went through a blue stage and a rose stage and Picasso went through different stages, in his artistic career and winemakers do that, but you can usually see the relationship at different stages.
We get better every single year.
Though people who had our wines maybe 5 years ago or 15 years ago, still recognize the style, the style has evolved more. And we also make several more different styles of wine than we used to.
As a winemaker, I know great wines are always wines of a place.
You can make very good wines if you buy from various locations around, but it takes a winemaker a long time to get to know their vineyards because you only get one crop a year.
I’ve been making sparkling wine for 36 years. I’ve only made sparkling wine 36 times. A chef might make their famous dish 36 times a night.
In the wine business, experience counts for much more than almost any other industry because it’s a slow process that takes a long time.
So having your own vineyards and really being able to hone in on how you adjust – how you prune them, how you manage them, how you harvest them. Having your own grapes is enormously important.
So is Taittinger organic in France?
No, you know, because of the conditions. They have rain all summer long. And we’re very blessed with a dry season. So there are people in France who are going organic or biodynamic. Champagne is very northerly so I think it would be very hard to do that.
[Subsequently, people have tried but few have succeeded.]
Because?
Because they get rains and often they’re harvesting very late in the season when it’s cold and they’ve been rained on, cause they have such a slow ripening…you keep waiting.
Whereas we always get ripeness and if we get an unexpected rain in the summer, it’s very breezy right through here and we get dry very quickly. I’ve only seen rain damage in sparkling wine once in 36 years.
Taittinger grows more than 50 percent of their own grapes which in Champagne is extraordinary. The fact that we do 96% of our own is extraordinary.
You never get the quality from vendors that you get from having your own grapes. The grower has a different incentive than the winemaker does.
I didn’t actually find out agewise what type of person is attracted to sparkling wine? Who are the bubbleheads, agewise?
I’m not sure that there’s an age group. I think the 20-30 age range that’s coming along right now [this was in 2013], we have a lot of enthusiastic supporters in that age group but we also have a wonderful wine club. We do a lot of social events and we have a beautiful outside space you can sit in.
But we have people who come and show us that they just turned 21 and we have people who are in their 80s drinking bubbles…or 90s…we have people from Topeka, Kansas who come here every summer and come here and sit out on the terrace everyday that they’re here and drink bubbles. It’s actually a group of gals – it’s four gals who come and they call this home. And they usually come for the Le Reve and lobster party we do in the middle of the summer. And then there are neighbors who come and sit on the terrace.
Chateau de la Marquetrie PHOTO
So let’s talk a little bit about the decision to make the building look like what it looks like. How did that come about?
Well, the Taittingers own a historic chateau called the Chateau de la Marquetrie..and we’ll do a little walkaround and I will show you a picture of the Marquetrie…and the Taittingers have always been interested in historic architecture. So when they took over in the mid 1930s, they started acquiring some historic buildings, and the Chateau de la Marquetrie was one of the first of them.
And then in the center of France, Reims, they own an old house, a mansion, of the Count of Champagne.
And then they have these historic cellars – based on an old abbey. So they’ve got this great interest in historic architecture, preserving it and repurposing it so it can stay alive.
So when it came time to build a winery, the Taittingers convinced the other partners that new winery in Carneros should be a chateau based on their Chateau de la Marquetrie.
Their argument was that they expected to produce world class wines here and they wanted something that said “world class” as far as a statement.
When this Domaine Carneros building was first built, there were a lot of people who were horrified and said this doesn’t fit in with the territory, etc.
But if you look at Mondavi, for instance, Mission style is basically a form of what came out of North Africa. But it came here by way of Spain.
And so what would fit in with the territory? Would it be tipis? I don’t know.
The Taittingers wanted to do something that would clearly say ‘world class.’
And they loved their Chateau de la Marquetrie and they wanted this recreated in the U.S.
So I was at the Napa Historical Society last weekend and I saw these photos from when the winery opened when it first opened – people dressed up in the French costumes.
Yes, the Grand Opening.
Do you still do costume things or?
Well for the Grand Opening, it turned out that the costumes from the Dangerous Liasons show had just come off of a year long loan, like two days before the Grand Opening. So we were able to use them.
There was just one problem. They were all these gorgeous costumes, but the waists were very tiny.
We were very heart broken; we were sure we were going to wear them.
So we went to the high school and tried to get people who were size 8’s but they couldn’t…The costumes were like size 4’s.
BEST MOMENTS - THE MILLENIUM MARKED AN AUSPICIOUS TURNING POINT
Eileen: I had Le Reve on the millennium. It was exciting. Befitting.
Claude Taittinger served it to 500 of his closest friends. He owned the Hotel de Crillon in Paris at the time.
I asked him why they chose that? Because, he said, it was making wine in the New World, which he said was one of the most significant things in the last 1,000 years.”
Have you noticed anything different since you started growing organically?
The quality of the grapes is just phenomenal. I mean originally we did it for the guys and gals working in the vineyard. And it was really thinking that it would be a much healthier environment, but the vines just look so much more vibrant and healthy and the fruit that you get has so much more body and finish. Every year, they get better because the soils get better because we’re not spraying herbicides.
The soils keep getting richer and better all the time, and the vines look healthier and the grapes get better. A lot of people don’t do it because they think it’s too much work or they think it’s going to be too expensive and it is more expensive, but it’s not. I think we figured out it costs us 4 percent more to farm organically than non organically.
Well some people say ‘we’re organic but we’re not doing the paperwork.’ Well going organic is this much work [big] and the paperwork is like this much work [tiny].
People steal our (CCOF) signs all the time. So that’s why I put out those certificates. To show that we’re actually real. Cause a lot of people just steal the signs.
I’ve always been mystified by people’s denial about the value of certification. They all say ‘oh the paper work, oh the cost.’
For one place it was like 4 cents a bottle, cause the government gives you back the fees…like half or three quarters.
Do you have a consultant?
No, we’ve done it in house and the CCOF people are helpful. I mean it’s some work but it’s not onerous.
Take us through these next wine– so the rose is named for Madame Pompadour…the Cuvee de la Pompadour…[now called simply their rosé]
So the rosé – part of a rosé’s identity is its color and it’s really the only sparkling wine that has a color identity. They can be almost red. Some sparkling wines are red. But then they can just be an off gold. But this actually has a little more color than most of the rosés, but I like this sort of soft peach color. We make a rosé by leaving it in contact with the skin.
Most people add red wine back to the cuvee. In Champagne they don’t get enough color from the Pinot Noir grapes, so they have to add red wine, but we leave it in contact. About 20 percent of the Pinot Noir we bring in, we leave in contact for the rosé, with the skin.
It has a very interesting finish.
It’s our prettiest wine, but it’s not sweeter. A lot of people actually think this is drier than the Brut.
So how are French people finding the wines when they come?
They respond pretty favorably. A lot of the Champagne producers are concerned because California sparkling is generally less expensive than Champagne. So you can get a heck of a good bottle here for a lot less.
So what part of the process do you love? What part do you get sort of little high about?
Harvest. The grapes come in and the grapes smell good. The aromas keep changing. When you first press the grapes, you get the aroma of this fresh juice and then as it ferments in the cellar, the fermentation smells change during the fermentation. And then you have the new wines to taste. But I also like the cuvee blending.
I was going to ask you about that –isn’t that kind of where the magic happens?
If you did your job right during harvest, that’s where the magic happens, but you have to…it’s like a chef in the kitchen.
The grapes, or your ingredients, have to be just right.
And how you handle the early phase is like preparing a meal – in preparing a meal, it has to be just right. The assemblage is putting all those properly produced elements together.
The assemblage is a great challenge because you haven’t done that job for a whole year.
At harvest, if you make a mistake in the first couple of days, it’s a big one.
Often sparkling harvest is only 10 or 12 days long. You have to get your mind to kick in really fast and think ‘Okay.’
Because I’ve worked with these vineyards and before, for another ten years, in Carneros. I have this mental inventory.
‘Oh, I remember this happened in 1984…and this was the situation and this was how we handled it and it worked.’
And you pull out from this rolodex or piles of information from past years and that didn’t work out… let’s see how we’re going to handle this.
And we had one clone here–we still have it–and the very first year when I picked it, it has a very muscaty, very over the top quality and I just thought ‘Oh.’
Of course I wasn’t anxious to tell my brand new employers that we were going to have to pull it out…a young healthy block of vines. So the next year I thought, ‘Why don’t we try harvesting it several days earlier, before it’s really ripened.’ And I did that and it was better. Actually it’s now one of the backbone clones in the Le Reve. And I don’t use a lot of it. But in the Le Reve there’s usually 5-7 percent of it.
I love our wine with shellfish. Scallops is probably the most perfect match. We do a fun party in the summer with members called Le Reve and Lobster. Which is very casual. It’s just lobsters, out on the tables, and blueberry pie. With a slab of vanilla ice cream.
So Maine [where I used to live].
With a shooter of clam chowder. It’s informal. It’s fun. We hand out bibs. It’s silly and fun and delicious. We do those all summer long. People really love it.
Maybe you would like to come to one.
Yes. [And I did…and I will never forget it. Thank you, Eileen. And may there be more lobster dinners in heaven with your wines.] PHOTO